Following their hit Netflix documentary and huge The Circus Tour, Take That talk 10th album Dreamers

You might not expect a band of their incredibly successful vintage to feel nerves jangling before a new album release, but that’s exactly where Music Week finds Take That. Poised to release their 10th full-length Dreamers, their apprehension is down to being full of “ambition and desire”. And, in the wake of a hit Netflix series and the smash return of their Circus tour, why wouldn’t they be? Here, joined by Corduroy Artists, Island EMI, UTA, SJM Concerts and more, the trio tell us why, in 2026, they’re bigger than ever… WORDS: NIALL DOHERTYPHOTOS: JASON HETHERINGTON It was while sitting in the dressing room backstage at a show during the summer reboot of their spectacular Circus tour that Take That landed on the title for their new album: Dreamers. The gig they were about to play featured a giant inflatable ringmaster, fire-breathers, acrobats, a hot air balloon and a massive elephant that transported them through the crowd. Take That are dreamers, alright. A boy band sensation who turned into a man band sensation, they have made a career out of it. “If we’d been in a conversation five minutes before and somebody asked, ‘What’s the album called?’ we all would’ve been looking at each other, not quite sure,” says Mark Owen. “As soon as that moment came around, we all would’ve answered unanimously: Dreamers. It was that simple.” “It’s funny that it came around in the dressing room on The Circus tour, because if there was ever a place…” interjects Gary Barlow. “Can you imagine what the meetings were like before anyone saw that show? ‘Okay, so we’re gonna be on the back of an elephant and we’re gonna have this massive man…’. Making tours like that, Dreamers describes us perfectly.” Howard Donald thinks they have been dreamers right from the start, adding that combining their vision with an unrelenting work ethic is one of the things that has made the band – a three-piece since Jason Orange’s departure in 2014 – so successful. “We’ve always been dreamers,” he says. “But I believe you have to work on that dream and make it become a reality, and that’s what we try and do.” “Take That are national treasures,” is how Louis Bloom, their label boss at Island EMI, puts it. “They put on a show and it’s joy and escapism at its best.” It’s a Monday evening in late September when Music Week meets the affable trio, who are based in London (Barlow), West Sussex (Donald) and Los Angeles (Owen). Work on Dreamers was similarly spread out – written and recorded in London, New York, Nashville and Los Angeles, with a vast supporting cast including Stuart Price, Jamie Scott, Martin Hannah, Red Triangle, Tom Odell, Johan Carlsson and more. As they had with 2023’s chart-topping This Life (176,343 sales, according to Official Charts data), each member worked on songs separately before bringing them into the Take That realm. “We’d come off the back of This Life and were writing in a similar vein,” explains Owen. “But then Howard came in with this song, Higher, which was built around an Earth, Wind And Fire sample he’d found. He sent us a WhatsApp saying, ‘Blast this fucker in your car.’” Owen says the track redirected the course of the new record. “Howard kept coming in saying, ‘I really want to write some pop songs, songs we can perform live,’” Owen recalls. There was added incentive when the group realised Dreamers was their 10th record and needed to be an album that put down a marker in some way. “It almost acknowledges all different parts of the band over the last 30 years, over the last nine records,” says Owen. “I feel like it’s been one of the simplest records we’ve made in a long time because we were all writing to a bar that was, ‘If it’s not a single, if it doesn’t feel like a special song, we’re not going to put it on an album,’” adds Barlow. “It was about coming up with your best work.” It was during the campaign for This Life that the band sat down with their manager Chris Dempsey, founder of Corduroy Artists, and discussed what their next move might look like. After a run of albums wrapped in grand concepts and big production shows, they wondered if maybe it would be fun to just try and write some singles instead. “That sounds a bit mad,” says Dempsey. “Because all artists are trying to write hit records, but stepping away from thinking of an overarching concept and trying to write into that idea was quite liberating for them in a way. They really embraced it.” A key addition to the team bringing the project together was ex-Polydor and Karma Artists A&R Ross Gautreau. “A big part of my role was setting up sessions, finding the right collaborators for the right artistic direction and making this a really special record,” shares Gautreau, who runs A&R consultancy firm Second Verse. “We definitely had a strong focus on writing great singles. We put a huge amount of thought into what would be the right combination with the right people.” As a result, Gautreau says, the record features work from around 30 writers, 20 producers and seven mixers. “Because we’re three separate people, it was important for us to have somebody who could hold everybody together,” explains Owen. “Especially when you talk about the year we’ve had – we’ve been trying to make a record whilst going on one of the biggest tours we’ve ever done, so we needed people like Chris and Ross, who have been able to orchestrate and organise us and help us get to where we need to go.” When the band first sat down with Gautreau, he showed them a spreadsheet. “He said, ‘I want to do this, I want to do that, I want to aim for this market,’” recounts Barlow. “We sat there for about 45 minutes and he closed his laptop and I said, ‘Ross, if we can get through 10% of what you’re suggesting, we’ll be better off.’ He’s such a nuts-and-bolts A&R, he’s almost like an accountant A&R, so precise on numbers.” The strategy behind the collaborations on the new album involved targeting locations where the band were gaining traction and finding the right artist they could team up with. The Philippines, for example, is a relatively new territory for them, hence the song Glow with Manila folk-pop group Ben&Ben. There’s also Feel My Love, their recent single with Irish-American singer-songwriter Michael Patrick Kelly, a huge star in Central Europe. “Working with people internationally is a little bit more logistically challenging but absolutely worth it,” says Gautreau. “I think all the collaborations on the record have been really special and the band haven’t traditionally done a lot of those. They were really open-minded.” Howard Donald is the one always pushing Take That to get to new places, and he revels in the fact that next summer they will be visiting cities in Europe they’ve never been to before, playing some of their biggest shows on the continent to date. He says the biggest buzz he gets from the band isn’t necessarily from writing music; it’s turning that music into a euphoric show. “It’s so people can spend their money and leave that stadium, festival or arena as happy as can be, that’s what we love,” he says. “Then, it’s word of mouth. Mothers are bringing their daughters who are in their teenage years now, and it’s such a buzz to see a whole new audience, and a lot of guys, too. I get lots of guys coming up to me and going, ‘I don’t necessarily like your music but you cannot fault your show.’ They love it – it makes me proud.” SJM Concerts supremo Simon Moran, who has worked with the band since their 2005 reunion, thinks that Take That’s 2009 jaunt for The Circus was the best tour they’ve ever done, but its 2026 reprisal managed to match it. “The sales were brilliant, around 730,000, second only to Harry Styles in the UK this year,” he says. “The Circus was one of the very best things I’ve ever seen.” How to follow it comes down to keeping things fresh, Moran states. “You do something different, something that excites the fans,” he says. “You’ve got to keep them excited and not do anything too soon – I wouldn’t have advocated touring in the UK next year. Maybe take a sideways step to move forward – they’ve not played arenas for a while. There’s a lot of discussions going on, but the live thing is where they’re the leaders and visionaries in the modern business.” James Wright, co-agent for the band alongside his UTA colleague Olly Ward, has previously suggested in Music Week that the original Circus tour helped to spark a stadium boom in the UK that is still growing. Today, Wright calls Take That “pioneers of the modern large-scale stadium show”. “The Circus set a new benchmark for what a stadium show could be, and its influence is still evident today,” he opines. “Seeing that production again all these years later, [you realise] it remains a masterclass in how to create a truly spectacular live experience that connects with an audience on a monumental scale.” “To see the number of sales the band can do, with no new album released, is a testament to the deep and genuine connection between Take That and their fans,” adds Ward. “Nothing highlighted it more for me than in Manchester, the band’s hometown, during their run of four nights at Etihad Stadium, where they received an extended standing ovation after each performance of Never Forget. The fans connect to Take That as people as much as they do musicians. This tour was the biggest realisation of that.” From the outside, Take That’s 2026 looks to have been meticulously plotted: begin the year with their warm, nostalgic Netflix documentary, follow it up with the jubilant second coming of The Circus tour and then end it with something forward-facing in a new record. But Gary Barlow actually says it all just luckily fell into place. “The thing with something like the Netflix show is you’re dealing with a global corporation and they decide when it’s ready, so it would’ve been really hard for us to map this year out two years ago,” he says. “Once we knew it was dropping in January, we could then start to organise the rest of the year, and it just so happened it was the same year we were doing The Circus tour. But it was important that we finish the year facing forwards, letting people know that we’re still making new music and when we tour next, it’ll be a brand-new tour.” Helping them juggle all of that was Dempsey. “To manage us three probably isn’t the easiest thing in the world, ’cause we all come with our own story,” says Owen. “Chris listens and tries to apply all our thoughts and ideas into what’s right for the band.” “There are different types of managers but Chris gets campaign and strategy,” adds Barlow. “This is a world now where you have to be a fan of that – you have to be someone who rallies campaign and strategy to launch things, and that’s where I see his biggest strength.” There have been some changes at their record company since their last album, too. The band now come under the purview of the merged Island EMI – the label group headed up by president Louis Bloom – whilst Dickon Stainer has replaced David Joseph as chairman & CEO of Universal Music UK. “This sounds like a Gary question,” says Mark Owen when we ask about the label reshuffle. “Yeah, I’ve worked with Dickon before...” nods Barlow. “I knew it!” exclaims Owen. “Someone shut Mark up!” Barlow responds, putting on a hoity-toity voice and adding, “So, when me and Dickon had a No.1 record…” Owen is comically up in arms. Returning to his normal speaking voice, Barlow continues, explaining that he and Stainer worked together on 2012’s Sing, an album the Take That man put together to commemorate the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee. “Dickon put it on Decca for me; it felt like a project they could take over,” he says. “Usually, anything that was not Take That, I’d do it on Polydor, but Dickon felt like a really safe pair of hands on that, and we worked together very successfully. “We were really sad to see David Joseph go, but equally as thrilled to see someone who loves music running Universal,” Barlow continues. “Because you see these labels now, and some have lawyers and accountants running them. It’s important to always remember it’s about the music, and Dickon is a real music guy, and so is Louis. They’re music people and that’s all you ever want as an artist.” “Louis has been fantastic, as has Dickon – they are fantastic supporters of the band,” chimes in Dempsey. “Take That have got a long history with Universal, and Lucy Dann [Island EMI MD] and Alex Sayers [marketing director] have been crucial to helping us shape this campaign. Lucy and the band go back a long way from when she was at Polydor. Her innate understanding and history with the band – and with me as well, I worked with Lucy many years ago – has been really important in shaping the campaign.” “Everything is about focus, and what Dickon is brilliant at is bringing teams together and communication and prioritisation at the right time,” says Bloom, who had Take That’s Rule The World as the first dance at his wedding long before they worked together. “We feel the whole company, everyone, is pulling together and we’ll show that when we release this album. I think it’s going to make a huge impact – you’ll see the numbers in week one, they’re going to be significant. It’s the band, Chris, but it’s also this team pulling together.” Bloom says the band are helping to define what EMI is in the modern age. “Elton John, Take That, these are legends in the game,” he affirms. “We always look to the past and the future and the present, and they’re all of those things.” Bloom calls Take That the “crown jewels” of EMI, which he says is being positioned as the “premier pop” label within UMG UK. As a veteran of Take That campaigns going back 15 years, Lucy Dann confides that she counts her “lucky stars to work with the best band in UK pop history”. She adds that she’s told team members who haven’t worked with the band before how much they will learn from the experience. “We’ve got a new digital set-up and a really great creative team,” she says. “It’s all the experience I have, but with a whole load of fresh ideas and energy.” Dann pinpoints the label’s short-form content strategy as something that’s currently flying for Take That. “I think they’ve really found their tone with that,” she says. “The numbers have been excellent and we’ve really amped up trying to link the old with the new. The documentary showcased their incredible career and then there was the magical tour across the summer. We’ve gained a lot of new fans and we’re really taking the learnings of who the new audiences are. When you go to the shows now, you can see it’s families and stuff. We’re trying to bring that fresh content and new audience into this campaign.” The first batch of touring for Dreamers is a run of European dates next summer, something of a thank you to fans who’ve often played second fiddle to the UK diehards, says Chris Dempsey. “Getting to fans outside of the UK has been a big aim for us over the last few years,” he says. “The international team at Universal has really helped us do that.” “The response has been incredible, both from fans and promoters, and is a real indication of the strength of the band internationally,” says James Wright. “Take That have always had a huge audience in the UK, but we are now seeing that translate into a genuinely global proposition, which is very exciting.” “It’s clear now that there is a global demand for Take That, which stretches across borders and generations,” adds Olly Ward. “For as long as the band wish to continue touring and keep putting on such a special show, the fans will be there for them.” SJM only handle the band’s shows in the UK, though Simon Moran has been paying close attention to their European itinerary. “They’re doing a lot of days on the run, so they’re working bloody hard,” he notes. “The tour starts with four gigs in a row, all in different cities – that’s unique at their stage in the game. They seem to be enjoying it more than ever, which is great.” Moran describes the union of SJM and Take That as “very fulfilling”. “It’s what they do on stage and the amount of effort they put in, the creativity, being open to ideas and very inclusive on all decision-making,” he says. “Fortunately, they’ve listened to a lot of ideas on what to do – not all the time, but mostly it’s worked out pretty well. For them to keep up a level of performance and show content that people want to come back and see, they never take things for granted – they work their socks off. They’re always really focused and intelligent, and we try to be very detailed and smart about everything on the business side.” When asked for precise details of the next phase of their live activity, Moran suggests that the band want to “keep pushing forward and keep moving, be innovative, go to new places in the UK – they love it – and just be smart about it”. “They’re still very ambitious,” he adds. “They’re certainly not thinking of downing tools any time soon...” In the period following Take That’s second wave of mega-success in the mid-2000s, Howard Donald would sometimes be at home watching TV and channel-hopping, coming across shows depicting other pop stars hoping for a similar renaissance. “Around that time, there were so many TV programmes of boy groups forming with other boy groups and trying to make a supergroup and trying to follow in our footsteps,” he recalls. “I’m sure at one point they must have been scratching their heads thinking, ‘How have they actually done this?’” Indeed, Donald says he asks himself the same question. “I think it’s down to our friendship and our workmanship together,” he suggests. “Plus, our love for the music and our will to go forward and keep on being successful and not always looking back at our last hit and thinking, ‘We’re alright now.’ We’ve just got to keep going.” Gary Barlow doesn’t believe Take That have any peers. He thinks their story – the young superstars, the split, the return as a grown-up pop phenomenon, the line-up changes – is too unique. “We talk about this a lot because you’re always tempted to look and go, ‘What are they doing? Why did they do that?’” he says. “And it’s really hard to come up with anyone who’s had a long career but it’s been so up and down – I don’t think you can compare us to anyone else.” Asked to reflect on what they worry about and what excites them in the music industry right now, Barlow says they tend not to think about themselves being in the industry. What dominates their thoughts, he offers, is their audience. “Everything is so fragmented – it’s about getting your audience and taking care of them,” he says. “It’s not about delivering what everyone else wants. You know your audience is on your side because they like you, so just be you. If there was ever a time to respect, look after and love your audience, it’s right now. And the business side of it runs alongside all that – the business side allows you to deliver to that audience or play for that audience.” After a short pause, Donald sardonically adds, “I was gonna say exactly what Gary just said.” And then Owen pipes up: “I was too.” There are some industry discussions that Barlow lends his ear to, though, like the conversation around AI. “I always have to look at things in a positive sense,” he begins. “And AI is going to give us all permission to be as creative and different as we want to be. Let’s face it, AI is only going to be able to repeat what we’re doing right now. You never want to repeat yourself – you always want to be doing something different, and that’s what we’ve done. It means you can be even more different now, because AI doesn’t know where we’re going next – only we know that. I think it will bring the best out in artists.” As per their last Music Week cover story in 2023, all of them remain happily ignorant about their streaming numbers (which include a monthly Spotify listener count of just shy of seven million). “I’m afraid I’m still no more educated,” admits Barlow. “Management tell us when a certain single comes up, how many hits it’s had, and how many more followers the Take That account and our individual accounts have had,” interjects Donald. “It’s positive news and is great to hear, because we know we’re reaching more people, which opens doors to us touring. We love touring, so to get that opportunity for a song to be out there in Southeast Asia and all of a sudden it’s had 50k more hits there, you think, ‘Well, that’s an open door to go there and sing live.’ But, personally, I don’t follow the numbers. You could probably ask Mark and Gary about modern artists in the charts now, I haven’t even got a clue.” Not missing a beat, Owen jumps in: “Earth, Wind And Fire!” The three have been a trio since 2014, making this iteration of Take That the longest set-up in their history. As they see it, they are a three-piece for the foreseeable. “It’s had longevity,” says Donald. “We’re in such a great creative and positive, friendly place. As long as we all want the same thing, I don’t believe many things can go wrong.” “We are on our 10th record, and with the kind of album we’ve made, everything feels new,” adds Owen. “It feels like our first time in some ways. I’m like, ‘Oh shit, our album is out in a month!’” He is enjoying the feeling of “having a career that still feels fresh”. “We’re finding new ways of doing things,” he adds. “We always want to keep moving forward so it feels new. We’re working with new people at Island EMI and there’s that energy that feels like we haven’t done it before – it’s great to have that after all this time.” Watching their three-episode Netflix documentary at the start of the year reminded them just how much they’ve been through. “When I watched something like that, it just makes me unbelievably proud,” says Barlow. “We’re all still here, relatively sane, still healthy, still loving what we’re doing. It’s the best celebration of all to still have ambition and desire and to be sitting here, like Mark said, feeling a little nervous about the album coming out because we care about it.” With time almost up, we ask them, “If Take That had a motto in 2026, what would it be?” Barlow considers it for a moment before answering. “Get your head down and keep going,” he says. Owen just can’t help himself, and nabs the last word. “That’s the same one we had on day one...”

Independent's Day: Jeff Bell and Zena White talk Partisan's chart success and new publishing venture

Earlier this year, Partisan Records won the Independent Record Company title for the third time at the Music Week Awards. Here, we catch up with VP, head of UK Jeff Bell and COO Zena White to dig into the win and learn how the label home to Geese, Blondshell and Ezra Collective has come to specialise in artist development and also evolved into a more “robust” business via another new publishing venture… WORDS: CHARLOTTE KROLPHOTOS: SAM KEELER It was particularly fun,” Jeff Bell reflects on Partisan’s big win at the Music Week Awards back in May. “But it was also my first day back from paternity leave, so it was a pretty quiet one for me.” “One of our artists, Femi Koleoso from Ezra Collective, also won an award [as part of the BBC 6 Music team’s win in the Radio Station category],” adds the VP, head of UK at Partisan Records. “It plays into the idea of community, which definitely underpins a lot of what we do. We’ve had a lot of people grow up [through working at the label], so seeing them be recognised in that way was really special and fun.” At this point, Zena White, COO of Partisan Records, hops on the line from NYC. “I will say, Jeff, that I’ve also had to follow Femi onstage making a speech and it’s very hard as he’s basically a professional orator,” smiles White. “What an articulate man he is!” That the executives at Partisan are happy to divert attention away from their own win to celebrate 6 Music and Femi Koleoso speaks to the mindset they held seven years ago when we interviewed them for our cover. Back then, they told us they weren’t “in competition with anyone” – a conversation that took place prior to the label winning Independent Record Company at the 2020 and 2021 awards. This year, notably, completed a trio of wins for the Brooklyn-founded label. Looking back on the latest triumph, Bell pauses, trying to summarise how his company – whose US colleagues work in New York and LA, with UK and European colleagues in London and Berlin – is feeling. “It’s validating to receive such a positive response from the community,” he says at last, though he adds that seeking praise and accolades is far removed from their core purpose as a record label. “We’re often just in the bubble, doing the work,” Bell says. “So when you come up for air and see that people are taking notice in that way, it’s a nice feeling.” When we catch up with Bell and White, it’s exactly a week since Ezra Collective landed their first-ever No.1. The jazz group’s fourth album, Here Because Of Hope – their third release on Partisan since signing four years ago – debuted atop the chart and has amassed 15,343 sales to date, according to the Official Charts Company. So, how are Bell and White actually feeling about the band’s chart-topping success in the UK? “It’s a combination of feeling really proud of what we’ve achieved, but even more so excited about what’s to come,” explains Bell. “No.1 was absolutely a goal for the campaign, but not because we wanted the band or anyone to hold up a trophy. It was about breaking down barriers and opening doors for a lot of other artists in the industry to achieve accolades – and it was for genres that maybe don’t have the same light shone on them. Femi is already excited about where to go next.” “It’s been very similar to the Music Week Award itself: very validating,” continues Bell. “Seeing the number of people who have reached out and acknowledged how important it is for artists like this to have that platform… being part of that is something we’re all very proud of.” White also shares in the pride of the label’s win this year and Ezra Collective’s No.1 last month. “It’s about the team, really, and just how much work goes into every single campaign and how much they push themselves,” she says of the Music Week award. “In the decade that Jeff and I have been working together at Partisan, we’ve seen the team mature in a way that’s so beautiful to watch, and so to get the recognition from the UK industry in that moment is beautiful because it’s validating. In the case of Ezra Collective and others, we’re not in big record company buildings and yet we’re somehow able to take our artists from ground zero to the top of the charts.” Indeed, previous Partisan successes include Fontaines DC landing at No.1 in 2022 with their third album, Skinty Fia (199,792 sales, OCC), which marked the Irish band’s third release via Partisan before departing for XL Recordings. “But it’s not about the metrics,” White cautions. “It’s about the platform and how it can then reach people.” White has worked at Partisan for nine years – Bell for 13 – and this year marks the British executive’s ninth year working in the US, from where she “loves to keep tabs” on how many new labels are forming back home in the UK. “One thing I hope that the people who have followed our journey takes from all this, is that it’s totally possible to make it,” White says. “A win like this is good for spreading that kind of message as well.” And on that positive note, Music Week sits down with good friends Bell (the Aussie exec based in London) and White (the Brit exec based in New York) to see if we can persuade the humble pair to further relish in their win – plus get their take on everything from the current state of the independent music landscape to the Geese ‘fake fans’ controversy, and much more besides... Reflecting on your Music Week Awards win back in May, what do you think set 2025 apart for you, and how do you look back on the journey since your last win in 2021? Jeff Bell: “We’ve always tried to stay the course and not spend too much time looking over our shoulders. The course for us is artist development. It really does take a long time to help an artist find their voice and vision. It takes time to nurture it, to give them the space, the resources, the expertise, the networks, and to learn their creative language. Being able to develop artists like Geese from their first records has attracted a couple more established artists along the way, like PJ Harvey and Beth Orton. But, all the while, we’ve been really developing artists underneath. During the pandemic, Cigarettes After Sex went from a cult band to one of the biggest acts in the world [Apocalypse has 2.6 billion Spotify streams]. Now, six years later, being able to list everything that Cigarettes have done, seeing where Geese and [bandleader and solo artist] Cameron Winter are at now, Ezra Collective reaching No.1, Blondshell... Taking artists that start off in the margins, and bringing them into the conversation at this level, is what drives us.” Zena White: “When we last won the award for Independent Record Company, it was recognition of us breaking through as a label. We were like, ‘Oh shit, here we are, we’re going after artists, they’re wanting to sign with us, this is great.’ And now we’re in a different space where, actually, not every artist you love is the right artist to work with. Speaking for myself, we are in a much more balanced place of understanding that there’s a chemistry that makes it right for us to work with an artist. And so we’re not really thinking about who our competition is; we’re focusing on ourselves, rather than what everybody else is doing. I’d hope that whoever is on the judging panel now sees that we created a blueprint for artist development. The most exciting artists on our roster right now are the ones that people are just starting to hear, or are about to hear.” JB: “Again, it’s not really about looking over our shoulders. It’s more, ‘What are we offering?’ Traditionally, labels in the independent space have been associated with creative agility, freedom and space. A lot of what is associated with [a major label] is a more sophisticated business model and infrastructure – and the big red button that comes with that. We’ve always tried to focus on building something that has the power to offer both.” What is Partisan’s focus in terms of A&R now? Are there any genres or territories that you’d like to expand on? JB: “We launched an imprint in January called Select Discs, with Greg Wells, who’s been a long-time friend and family member of the label. It’s primarily an electronic artist label, which isn’t a genre we’ve dabbled in before, but already it’s bringing so much energy into the company. The way that you sign, develop and market those artists moves so quickly – it’s less focused on albums and is more about singles and EPs. That roster includes artists like Jeshi from London. And then there’s Luci Gang, a rapper from Korea, who is making a lot of waves online, to some pretty esoteric DJs. But when you zoom out to the roster as a whole, we’ve got a Fela Kuti catalogue at one end of the spectrum, and a band like Idles at the other. Ezra Collective fits firmly in between those. The throughline there is that they define themselves as artists who we believe are enhancing the human condition, not exploiting it. They’ve got something to say and they’re doing it in a unique way, and so it isn’t always a conversation about genre.” ZW: “We have been genre-agnostic for many reasons. The essence of what Partisan is, is saying, ‘This kind of music doesn’t have an audience, but why not? Because it’s making people feel something important; therefore, we need to build an audience for it.’ In a way, that goes against the genrefication of things.” You’ve had chart successes with Fontaines DC, Geese, Idles and Ezra Collective. Can you identify what the knack is for finding and developing artists who go on to do well? JB: “If we could give a very succinct answer, it would probably make our jobs and lives a bit easier in the day to day! But it starts with understanding that artists are always developing – wherever they are in their career. They could have not put out any music and are just experimenting with ideas, or it could be an artist who is selling out stadiums around the world and is selling millions of records. They’re all still developing. If there is a knack, it’s appreciating that fact.” ZW: “But I think even before that, it starts with, ‘Is it relevant?’ That’s the question we try to answer with what we’re looking for, especially when it’s a brand new artist. We all know how hard it can be to take an artist from absolute ground zero. I think, ‘Is it relevant?’ is a more important question today than it was even 10 years ago, because we’re now living in a world where so many things are made by computers. The human experience, the human-made art is even more important now to cut through that noise. It’s challenging to scale [artists and the business], for sure. But we figure out how to make it work and how to have a high-quality experience. And we try to make it fun, as well. One of the things we’ve learned along the way is that if we’re not making it fun for the artist – if it’s not a positive experience for them to work with us on the presentation of the record – then we’re not going to reach their fans in as positive a way either.” Partisan’s Music Week Award came off the back of roster successes like Geese last year. Can you reveal the strategy behind breaking one of the hottest guitar bands on the planet? JB: “It was by starting off meeting them when they were, like, 17 or 18 years old and just giving them space because we really believed in them as people. We saw what was possible. No one had a crystal ball, but we were excited about the possibilities. The momentum really started to pick up around the second record we did with them, 3D Country [Geese’s third album]. It was about giving them space to have some pretty wild ideas.” ZW: “To Jeff’s point, I want to say that their first album, Projector, was made and produced by them in a basement when they were teenagers in high school. It was always about where they were going for us. So, actually, it’s a great record, but it was like, ‘If they’re making this now, where is this going to go?’ We signed them in 2020, it was the pandemic, they should have been touring and they couldn’t. And so the reason why it started to pick up around 3D Country in 2023 is because they were touring.” JB: “And that’s a great record. But trusting Cameron [Winter’s] perception of the world, the lens that he was looking at it through and how other people were connecting with that – and then fast-forward to him putting out his own record a couple of years ago – and the process around all that was kind of anti-marketing. It was very much about letting people come and find it. We supported the discovery rather than forced it on people or over-marketed it.” ZW: “Artist development is about knowing when to stay out of the way and when you’re actually needed, or when it’s important to contribute something. It’s really about putting the right structure and team around an artist to ensure that they can just keep doing what they do best, which is writing and recording incredible music. Geese are so talented and they have this unique chemistry because they’ve played music together since they were, like, 12 years old. That’s extremely rare.” On the marketing point, that leads us to ask for your reaction to the Geese ‘fake fans’ controversy, in which the band was accused of drumming up inorganic support through digital marketing and trend simulation. Some fans were disappointed by the allegations, while others simply shrugged it off as another modern-day marketing trend… ZW: “It was just ridiculous because it’s our job, as a label, to market records. That’s a part of what we do. It just so happens that in the last decade, influencer marketing has been one of the ways you reach people. We barely used it in this example. We tried something with the company, which will stay nameless, and even still, most of that was just tapping into people who had already been posting about the band anyway. And we certainly didn’t pay for fake comments. Ultimately, it was a real shame because this is an artist that has worked so hard for years, and has done nothing but truly be themselves. Also, a lot of people love to jump on a bandwagon. We’ve been fortunate enough to have a number of breakthroughs. There’s always some kind of backlash of [people thinking], ‘Okay, we don’t know why this is successful, so we’re going to try and take it down.’ That’s all that was.” In September, you completed a strategic merger with OTM Music publishing – why make that move when you did? ZW: “We want this company, with its culture and its fingerprint, to be a legacy music company. To have that kind of longevity, it’s important to have a robust business plan. Having any kind of diversity in your business is good. Publishing and recordings have gone together since the invention of the piano roll, so our business is very used to a record label having a partnership with a publishing company. However, the driving factor for us is more about being involved with more great music. Not every artist or songwriter is right for our label, but there’s so much great music out there and we want to make sure that, even as a label partner, we’re providing the best connections and relationship opportunities for any artists who want them.” Speaking more broadly now, what do you think are the pros and cons of operating in the current indie landscape? JB: “It’s an interesting time to be asking that question. The biggest pro is having the time, space and agency to really develop artists based on the art and to base it on them as people. Artists are humans, and not everyone works on the same timeline. That’s how you get the best out of people, so being able to create that space and identify when to really press the button is what we have success with. I don’t see too many drawbacks.” ZW: “The best thing about where we are right now is that the music Partisan works with asks something of the listener. It seems that’s in the mainstream again. What that means for independent music companies is that the progressive art that we’ve spent our careers nurturing actually has a chance to cut through to bigger audiences. It’s a collective responsibility, as a community, to make the best of this moment, take everything we can from the momentum and invest it back into our future.” And how about the cons for the independent world right now? ZW: “It depends on what is meant by independent music, because we could talk all day about that. When I’ve spoken to artists who have been in the major label system, teams can change quite a lot and that can be challenging because so much of what you do is built on relationships. When you look across our roster, we’re so proud to have been with artists across multiple records. You get to know each other, get better at working together. On a real, practical level – removing the ownership, corporate shifts and commercial deal points – it’s a people business. A really important part of working together is having consistency with the people around you, so we try to be really mindful of that. Independence, really, is about choice. Is Taylor Swift independent because she owns her own masters? She has that choice. So the question of what it is to be independent in the world that we live in today starts to become challenging. Everyone should ask questions about what’s behind the curtain, of course. And it’s hard to find that a lot of infrastructure is owned by a very small number of companies.” A lot of big deals of late have changed the landscape of independent distribution. How do you feel about that? ZW: “I have concerns about deal-making power and the health of the overall ecosystem, because a balance needs to be kept. There’s a real responsibility in deal-making. If you have the most power, you need to wield it in a way that’s responsible for all music rights holders. That’s where the pressure point is. The major-owned distribution question… On the one hand, the majors are very interested in the value of music. On the other, they have the power of platform deals that can potentially set the market, which can be seen as a positive because I hope they’re going to prioritise the value of music. Where that becomes challenging for independents is that sometimes the majors’ market share is a bigger priority for them than the value of music itself. That just isn’t the case for independent companies. Independent companies don’t need market share; they need profit. [We need a] landscape that fosters small music, allowing for progressive music. I’ve been thinking about the work that the Music Venue Trust has been doing in the UK and how that’s a good analogy for how important small venues are to the broader ecosystem.” Back in 2024, Partisan entered into a global partnership with Virgin Music Group. Can you tell us more about why you pursued that distribution deal? ZW: “We’re trying to have a music company with great global market access. If an artist chooses to leave us, that’s part-and-parcel of business. You can’t expect everyone in the entire lifespan of the label to stay, or for it to always make sense. But we don’t want them to leave because we don’t have the capability, because they got too big. We have a major label distribution deal that works for us because we get that global access to market. We have global teams who are engaged with our records and are on the ground doing true international market development for our artists. We looked at doing that alone, but we don’t have the scale.” JB: “If we’re going to be the best partner for all of our artists, we do need to be one degree more ambitious than they are. In this day and age, it’s about ensuring that labels and the people running them are able to curate the artists they work with – especially as computers are making more decisions. That’s something that has to be preserved.” ZW: “I feel like this has been a bit of a theme in my answers: it’s about the people. I’ve worked with so many different distributors over my career, and it really is always about the people. Our experience with our distributor right now is: the people are great, engaged and care. Who cares who owns the pipes? Are they going to do a good job, and is the art going to reap the benefit? And that is our experience with Virgin.” Finally, what comes next for Partisan? How will you be building its legacy? ZW: “There are more breakthrough artists continuing to make great music, so it’s about supporting them to have long careers.” JB: “The mission is to be one of the most trusted music companies in the world. Full stop. And to keep adding value. We want to discover more talent that makes the world a better place, and to keep supporting the artists and the people who work at this company to achieve that. That’s the mission.”

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